Hops and Hedges Podcast on Spotify with your Host - Heather Jerrard from My Landscape Artist
Original air date: Jan 24, 2024
Listen on Spotify and FOLLOW here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/43Ui5K4ZWtQgFtPM5JkuIo?si=-Oa3UE8xRraGEf9SEInfLg
Description
In this episode of Hops and Hedges, host Heather Jerrard speaks with David Milne from Quercus Gardens about his extensive experience in landscaping, the importance of community within the industry, and the multifaceted nature of gardening. They discuss the significance of soil health, the joys of shade gardening, and personal gardening challenges, including houseplants. The conversation also delves into mental health, coping strategies, and advice for new landscape businesses, emphasizing the need for a supportive community and continuous learning.
Takeaways
Gardens should serve multiple purposes beyond aesthetics.
Soil health is crucial for a thriving garden ecosystem.
Community support in landscaping is vital for growth.
Shade gardening can be enjoyable and rewarding.
Mental health discussions are important in the industry.
Coping strategies can include reconnecting with nature.
It's essential to embrace the non-static nature of gardening.
Houseplants can present unique challenges for gardeners.
Networking within the landscaping community can lead to opportunities.
Continuous learning and business acumen are important for success.
Transcript
BE ADVISED this transcript was created using the podcast publishing software and certain spelling or grammatical errors may be present.
Heather Jerrard (00:02.606)
There you go. So we are live. David, how are you? I am great. Thank you, Heather. How are you doing? I'm awesome. This is you are officially the first guest on the podcast. So welcome. Just going to open up saying I am your host, Heather Gerard. And today I'm talking with you, David Milne from Quercus. That's how you say it, right? Quercus. Yeah. Just like the oak tree, right? Quercus gardens out of Toronto.
And we're going to be talking about your business, how you got into landscaping, how you got into beer, what your beer of the day is, some of the work with Landscape Ontario, some coping strategies that you're implementing when times get tough. And then we're going to wrap up with some advice that you might have for new landscape businesses or businesses that are just starting out. Sound good? Yeah, it sounds great. Awesome. Well, thank you again so much for
coming on with me today. So we actually met through Landscape Congress, you and I. Exactly. I don't remember, Congress kind of becomes a blur. Yeah. And I don't know if it was like day one or day two, but I just remember meeting and kind of connecting with you and just here we are. And here we are. Yeah, I remember.
I don't know if it was last year now or two years ago, but there was you, there was Bob Adams, Terry Childs and Simon. And I can't think of his name, his last name right now. But we were all just kind of hanging out at the president's reception for Lindsey Drake. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, I like those kind of little quieter, more intimate times. Yeah, me too. That's it.
Congress is definitely one of my highlights. So your business, you started in 2000? Yeah, Crooked Garden started in 2000, but for quite a while before that, I did a little subcontracting. Yeah. So self -employed, but working for other people. But I've been in the industry for like,
Heather Jerrard (02:19.086)
About 46 years now. Holy smokes, 46 years. Yeah. Okay. I've taken some breaks along the way, but. Yep. You keep coming back to it, huh? Yeah, sucker for punishment. Aren't we all? And what are the services that you provide? We are a design, build, and care firm. So my background is landscape architecture and horticulture. So I do the design work.
We have the ability to install our designs. We do hardscaping and the softscaping. And then I have a team that cares for gardens. I hate to term maintenance. Right. We talk about garden care, not maintaining. We want the gardens to prosper and flourish. I love that. It's not just maintaining a garden. It's so much more. Yeah. Right. You maintain your weight. Yeah.
But a garden, we want it to do better, to prosper. Yeah. And actually thrive. Right. And there's so many aspects because it's, I mean, you have organisms, you've got plants, you've got soil and soil health. Like you can't just go in and do a pruning once a month and that's maintenance. Right? Exactly. You know, and the more that we learn about how amazing and intricate mother nature is, it actually makes our job.
both easier and more difficult at the same time. Right. And when I say easier is that if we work with the systems that we know work in nature, life is way easier. But if we keep on going the way that we have traditionally, then we battle a bit more or a lot more, I think. Yeah, that's a really good point. I haven't really thought of it that way, but you're either working with or against Mother Nature.
And she always wins. So always. That is true. OK, so the next question I have for you, David, and this is what everybody's dying to know. What are you drinking? OK, so tonight is because it's a special kind of occasion for me. I'm excited. I am blessed that I live within. I think there's seven small breweries that I can walk to. Why? Probably.
Heather Jerrard (04:44.238)
there's probably about 15 that I can get to in half an hour or less. So one of the ones that's near me is the place called Black Lab Brewery. And they named it after their dog Snoopy. Snoopy passed away. So they have one called Snoopy's Legacy. Snoopy's Legacy. That's a nice beer. It's aged in a French Oak. It's a little bit stronger. It's a sipper.
but I'm stoked so I'm gonna pour some out right now. Excellent. So that's a brewed in Toronto then? Yeah. Okay. What's the percent on that? It's 7 % which is a bit stronger than I normally go for, but I sipping on it. Excellent. I've actually got a 7 %-er myself. So I'm drinking Cowbell's Hazy Days, Hazy Nights. Oh, very nice. I Cowbell's. So Hazy, it's a juicy IPA.
7%. I actually really like the normal, like the straight, there's a hazy days and then this one is called hazy days, hazy nights. So I actually like the hazy days one more, but this one is, will do just fine. And it's like pineapple citrusy. So cheers to you, David. Cheers. Vicky. I have to pour mine in a glass though, because sometimes these hazy or juicy IPAs, you get that, the sediment in the bottom.
I like the sediment. Oh yeah? It actually gives you a bit more flavor. And the connoisseurs would always make sure that the sediment is poured in. Yeah. And I'm, I think I'm just a, I'm a really big baby when it comes to texture. So if I take a mouthful of something and suddenly the texture changes, then I go into panic mode. No, one of the things I like to make my own kombucha.
In often in kombucha, you get these really kind of weird growths. And my wife just looks at it and freaks. I don't have a problem with this, but sipping it back, but she won't go near it. Yeah, I think it's called a scoby, right? With kombucha? scoby, yeah. Oh, yeah. It just, to me, it looks like a little booger in your kombucha and I just can't get over it. Well, sometimes it's a big booger.
Heather Jerrard (07:07.662)
Ah, gross. Okay, thankfully we're drinking beer and not kombucha with scobies in it.
So this year at Congress, I attended my first AGM. This was my first, even though I've been a member since 2013, I started as a student member and now with my own business, I'm a Landscape Ontario member. And so you just got voted in for the second time now as the member at large position or role. So what is that? It's my third - What is third? Time doing it, yeah. And I just like -
The fact that I like to get to participate in how landscape and Ontario moves forward. I like the fact that members can reach out to me. So if they have a problem, they don't feel like their chapter or whoever is representing them. Right. They can reach out to me and when there's issues, I can present them to the board. And so for people who don't know what a member at large is, what does that mean?
So within Landscape Ontario, we have our chapters. So each chapter has a director on the board. And then you know, Heather, that there's all the different sector groups. There's the designer sectors group, there's the contractors, there's the lighting. So they all have representatives who sit on the board. So I'm not aligned with any chapter. I'm not aligned with any sector group. I'm just representing.
industry as a whole. That is so cool. Just the thought that anybody at any chapter could reach out to you, anybody at any sector could reach out to you, and it also gives you the opportunity to kind of float around too, right? Like you could go to different meetings or whichever. I think anybody has that opportunity actually within LO. As long as you remember, you can actually go and participate in the contractors group.
Heather Jerrard (09:13.774)
or the designers group and have a voice. But sometimes you don't then have that voice on a provincial board. So I can be that connection. Nice. Yeah. And actually that does bring to mind that there's a number of chapters in Ontario that put on events that open it up to other chapters, right? Cause we've got the ski or the snow day thing coming up. Oh yeah.
I just got the invite for that in my email. I forget what it's called. Yeah, I saw that today. Yeah, I don't think there's any issue with any member going to another chapters event, you know, like, and I think the more that we kind of share and connect, the better. That's something I really experienced personally with LO is that there really is kind of this open door, whoever you are and whatever sector you're in or whatever your focus is, whatever your location is.
It's like everybody is still kind of plugged into each other, which is really cool. I don't know if there's another organization like landscape material and the way that there is like, I might sound corny, but there is like a family in that the willingness to help one another, whether it's knowing you need some advice on business or searching for materials that, you know, there is that real willingness to help one another. I love that. Right.
Yeah, before I found landscaping, I was in retail sales and I will never, I'm glad I had the experience to know that how toxic it is and how much I don't want to do it. Right. But then landscaping, it's the opposite of cutthroat. Like there's so much work to go around. There's so much opportunity for growth. And I really do, um, admire and appreciate that members can talk and help.
each other, it's not so cutthroat is the word that comes to mind. Cause in retail, it's always us against them, right? There's no partnerships. Maybe, maybe they say there is, but there isn't. It's us against you. Who sells more? Who's doing better? And within Landscape Ontario, that's not been my experience at all. It's like, how can we help each other thrive? It's incredible. Yeah. I don't see it that way either. I just see.
Heather Jerrard (11:34.902)
you know, these others as colleagues. You know, I'm kind of lucky too that in the area where I work, I have a couple of companies where I'm become a bit of a mentor to them. Cause I want to see, you know, what, whatever we can do to raise the bar to one have, you know, a greater sense of professionalism. So that the general public says, God, this industry's got it together. So when I hire somebody, I want to hire a...
landscape material professional. Right. That's the goal for me at least. It's well I I would say that I'm not I like we don't hang out all the time. I used I think I pretty much see you just once every year at Congress and every year it's like no time has gone by. So it's uh I consider you one of my mentors there David. Well I appreciate that. Um I did I did make it up to a London event.
Last year I was at your plant symposium. Yeah, and we're actually, I'm pretty excited about it this year because I think the plant symposium is being hosted out of Ottawa, I think. So here in London, the London chapter, we're actually hosting a watch party and I'm going to be the MC for the evening. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I'm really pumped. Yeah. I'm going up to Ottawa to be a part of it. So I'm pretty excited about that. Nice. Well, I'll be cheering you on virtually from London.
Yay. Perfect. So I sent you what any guest who comes on the podcast, I send them a questionnaire in advance just to get some ideas of certain topics and what we might talk about. And I loved that. So I asked you about your personal garden, your own garden style and other topics you'd like to discuss and verbatim. I'm going to read this verbatim because I love what you wrote. You said we need to stop looking at gardens from a purely aesthetic perspective.
And you hit something on there. Cause I think I was approaching this questionnaire thinking, Oh, I wonder what all of these, the guests, like what their style is. And there's so it's such a bigger question. It's not just about what it looks like. So I'd love to kind of pick your brain a little bit about, you know, if we're not just talking about gardens and how pretty they are, what, what, what does the conversation need to be? Well, I, I believe that we're,
Heather Jerrard (14:02.99)
we need to go is that gardens have to serve multiple purposes at the same time. So obviously aesthetic is one of them, right? We want the garden to look good. But if our garden is not supporting the little critters that live in the world around us, both the fauna within the soil, that whole hugely
of family diversity.
ecosystem. Yeah. And if it's not supporting the little bugs and insects that live above ground, then we're doing Mother Earth a disservice. Yeah. The entomologist E .O. Wilson, and I'm just kind of paraphrasing, but he said it's the little things that run the world. Huh. And, you know, ultimately, when you think of kind of the food chain, for one,
you know, it's those insects that feed the slightly larger animals and continues on. Yeah. You know, we need to have the plants that support caterpillars because caterpillars feed the butterflies and it's just, it goes on and on. And for me personally, nature's my number one motivator has been since as long as I can remember. And when I see a garden alive with, you know,
the insects in it. And you know, I'm lucky enough that I, in my garden, I get, I get possums, I get coyotes, I get foxes. And I live downtown Toronto. Whoa. It's pretty cool. And when I have, um, swallow tails or monarchs, you know, laying their eggs on plants in my garden and then watching those caterpillars hatch, I still get as filled with awe as,
Heather Jerrard (16:02.542)
I did when I was five years old. It stuns me. It just blows me away. So, you know, I can look at a garden from the spec point of view and I appreciate it. And that's how I was schooled. You know, I've been to Versailles, I've been all these big fancy gardens and I get that, but we need to and can do better. I like that. It's a, I don't think we talk enough about soil health.
and that whole ecosystem, it's crazy the amount of stuff that lives in a square foot of soil, like healthy soil. It's mind boggling. If you're talking in a volume that big, it is literally billions of life forms, literally billions from bacteria and single -celled organisms, you know, to the fungi and a little bug called a tardig.
It just goes on and on and on. And really, we know now that soil is everything. It is the basis. If we don't treat our soil with love and dignity, which sounds kind of weird, we're doing something wrong. In my company, if you call the earth or soil dirt, I chastise you right away. Almost anybody else when I hear them refer to this dirt. Yeah, it's not dirt. It's not dirt.
No, I had an instructor at Fanshawe College who was pretty firm on that too. And he would always say, you know, dirt is what you get when you sweep your kitchen floor. That's dirt. Soil is alive. It's not something you just sweep under the carpet and forget about. And when you have good, healthy soil, there's a smell to it that for me, it's kind of primal. Mm -hmm.
So do you have a lot of property then? Like what sort of lot size are we talking? It's about 20 feet wide and from where that kind of, I'm on a ravine property. So I'd say if you kind of stretched it out, it's probably like, I don't know, a hundred feet, 120 feet. Yeah. So it's pretty big. Yeah. That's nice. I'm blessed to have lots of big mature trees. Awesome.
Heather Jerrard (18:27.534)
And when I inherited the space, there was nothing. So it's except for one tree peony that's kind of hanging in there. Otherwise, I planted everything. So if it's a ravine property, do you and I mean, you did mention that you've got lots of mature trees. So are you dealing with primarily shade or shade sun or? I everything from a heavy, heavy shade to a couple of little pockets where we know the sun beats down.
and a lot of partial shade. Right. It's so crazy to me. Like when I mean, for me personally, our place, it's pretty much full shade. Our whole backyard, it's shade. We've got some mature trees and it just shades the whole thing. And I kind of like it personally, because I feel like I'm in a cave. But how many gardens when there's property, you have all of those conditions on one property. Yeah, it's not it's not the norm for sure.
And I do have a shady garden. I think they're a little bit easier to care for. I love a lot of plants that thrive in the conditions. Yeah. It's interesting you say that because I feel like a lot of people, both general public and in the industry, feel the opposite. I think a lot of people struggle with shade gardening. And I mean, maybe we take it for granted because we have shade and we've been dealing with it. But I love shade gardening. And.
Me too, because you know, one of the things I love about gardening is that I love the non -static nature of it and the seasonality. And so the thing about it for me, about the shade garden is I love spring ephemerals. I love seeing the bloodroot pop up, the trout lily, the hepatica, the trilliums. And I don't know why it appeals to me so much, but like I said,
you know, the fact that they are ephemeral, that they pop up, they go, hello, and then they disappear. And then they're gone. Then they're gone. And I love the way that my garden in the shade changes, you know, on a pretty regular basis. Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned blood root, because I think that's, it is an Ontario native, right? And some people refer to it as not invasive because it is a native, but it can be aggressive.
Heather Jerrard (20:53.614)
And I've had the opposite effect. I've never seen bloodroot get crazy. I love it. I think it's beautiful. Yeah. In my own garden where I've had it growing out for 20 years, it's spread. Oh, actually it's spread, but it hasn't been a profound issue. Yeah. But you can plant, like if you're growing things like bloodroot, well, why not plant a bigger shrub on top of it? So before that shrub comes in the leaf, you know, the bloodroot pops up.
Yeah. Flowers does its thing and then the other shrub comes in the flower and disappears. Absolutely. Couldn't agree with you more. And the leaves of bloodroot. I mean, it's one thing that you get the pure white flower around the same time there's still snow on the ground, which is just fascinating to me. But the leaves almost look tropical or alien. Like there's such a cool texture in the garden that it's hard to miss. I love it. And even though I...
typically don't like doubles of any flower. I do like the double blood root. That is a gorgeous plant. And did you know that it was first found near London, Ontario? No. It's a naturally occurring plant, Sanguinaria canadensis 'Plena', but it was discovered by somebody growing wild near London. Interesting. I've seen the double and I just assumed that it was a like a human interaction that made the double. I didn't realize that was naturally found.
That is cool. It doesn't support any bugs though. So right. Most doubles don't right? So no, they don't. So I grow a little patch of it, but I have, you know, lots of this single. Then that's well, man, that's so cool. Uh, so we were talking about, um, also in the, in the questionnaire, different favorite plants and you listed a lot of them and I'm right there with you and even with the spring ephemerals. So you mentioned hepatica and that's another one that I think is greatly underused in the, in the landscape.
as something to include. Well, especially... Oh, sorry, go You get some that have that really blue flower and they get a really nice blue flower. Yeah. There's not many of them that we can grow. No, usually it's a purple, right? So even blue flocks, it's not blue, it's purple. So like there's so many... A real true blue is hard to find in the landscape. So it's...
Heather Jerrard (23:17.71)
That was really cool. But I had a little laugh because you said the horse chestnut, is it? Aesculus? Aesculus. Yeah, yeah. So I remember at Fanshawe, we had this plant ID test and we had to remember all these Latin names. And so I would always create a weird way of saying things to remember it. And for Ischelous, I would be like a gangster. I'd be like, hey, Ischelous. And that's how I remembered it.
It was just so funny. I had a little laugh when I saw that written down in your questionnaire. Cause I was like, Oh yeah, I remember that too funny. Uh, and the other one you mentioned was Epimediums. Like so beneficial in the landscape for especially, I like using it in a part to shady areas around mature trees because it doesn't need a lot of water and it doesn't have root competition. No, I think that there are.
a way underutilized group of plants. Obviously they're not native, but they're beautiful. The foliage sometimes is evergreen, it sticks around all winter. And they range from these tiny little plants to some where the flower stalks can be five feet tall. I did not know that. I only knew them as ground covers. The foliage can get to maybe 18 inches or so, but the flower stalks...
I'm going to have to look that up. Yeah. I can't remember the species, but the cultivar is called the giant. It's not an easy plant to find. And it's an expensive cultivar. Oh, I bet. All the nice ones are, you know, unfortunately there's, there's a few cultivars that I'm a little obsessed with. So, and they, they cost, they definitely cost. And then houseplants. You mentioned that there is one you like.
And when you can't keep alive. So what is it? Well, I do love house plants. Um, my favorite is probably my staghorn fern, you know, staghorn fern. I do. That is one that I keep killing. Um, I have one that I've had for God knows how long now and it's big and beautiful. Oh man. I'm jealous. And I, I grow all kinds of them. Um, there's a few types of.
Heather Jerrard (25:45.294)
Orchids that I struggle with. Yeah. And some that I, some that do really, really well. Huh. Uh, but then sometimes too, you know, I just get bored of growing the house plant. Like I had a really big, you know, the Zed Zed plant. ZZ plant. I've got, uh, I've got a little tiny one right there. Oh, I see it. Yeah. Well, mine was big. It was like three feet tall and a massive pot. And I just, I let the frost get to it.
Oh yeah, that sucks. Actually, you know what? I'm gonna get up for a second. Excuse me, I'm just gonna grab my begonia here that I quite love.
Heather Jerrard (26:27.628)
I totally meant to bring them over earlier.
Heather Jerrard (26:32.846)
Let me see if I can get my headphone back in here and see you amongst the trees. So these are my babies. Awesome. I love these polka dot begonias and they're thirsty. Like you really have to keep them watered. But I just love, uh, like the undersides and the burgundy color, which is a really nice contrast. And the polka dots I think are just really whimsical. And I'm all about spreading joy and these.
These make me smile. So these are my favorites. I've never had much luck with begonias. I've tried a couple of times. Yeah. But they just they don't work for me. And I wonder if it's a thing with humidity, right? Because most people say spider plants are easy and I kill them every time. I cannot keep a spider plant alive in this house. Is your home heated like with rads or is it
No, it's we've got, I want to say gas. OK, I know my home is really, really dry in the winter. Yeah. Because of rads and those things that want high humidity. Right. Don't do well for me, which is why the Staghorn Fern just keeps on going and going and going. So what room do you have that in? Like how I'm I'm boggled that you've managed to keep one alive and I haven't. It's one of my.
arch nemesis, because I keep killing it. Oh my gosh, that's it. I saw it in the background, but I didn't realize that was it. Oh, she is beautiful. So she, she stays in the kind of in my living room. So it doesn't get much late in the winter. I take it outdoors as soon as I can. Every spring and it stays out there until, you know, frost is going to tell me to bring it in. But.
I'm just gonna put it back. But yeah, I love it. Beautiful.
Heather Jerrard (28:41.038)
Um, where are we here? One advantage I have is because I'm also, I have a few aquariums. So whenever I do a water change in aquariums, that water is used to water all my plants. Gotcha. That's smart. Yeah, the house plants will love that for sure. So I'm just going to read a little disclaimer here before we get going. We've got about 10 minutes or so left of our meeting.
But for anybody who's tuning in and listening, we are going to get a little serious here for a second, have a genuine conversation concerning mental health and coping strategies. And some of the topics may be triggering for some. And we ask that you continue listening at your own discretion. So David, you mentioned imposter syndrome. And I was surprised a little that that came up for you because you've been in business for so long. So is imposter syndrome still something that's showing up for you?
Yes. It's kind of weird because even though I'm being in business a long time, I don't want to sound arrogant, but I know quite a bit, I think. Yeah. I'm on the provincial board. I was the Toronto president. I'm still active on the Toronto board. I'm one of the instructors for the Grow program. I sometimes don't feel like I'm worthy. And I don't know why.
That's huge. I kind of put that aside and I just jump in anyways. Yeah. But inside that's kind of the feeling I have. And that's how we can overcome it. Right. I mean, I was just I guess I was surprised because you've been in this for so long. And imposter syndrome is something that I deal with a lot. Even starting this podcast, I made up a lot of excuses not to do it because who am I to start a podcast?
I've only been in the landscaping profession for 10 years. I'm not even 40 yet. What do I know about the industry or the profession or podcasting? And then I get on this hamster wheel and it just ends up being this excuse. And so it was just, I think it's reassuring that it doesn't necessarily matter how long you've been at something, how good you're at something, that it's something that a lot of us struggle with.
Heather Jerrard (31:02.958)
Yeah, and I can't explain it. I don't know why. My wife thinks I'm an egotistical, I don't follow myself. But that might just be bravado just to try and get over the insecurities that I have. It's a little bit of a way to cope. Yeah, exactly. It's like we put up this, no, I'm good. I'm good. I got this. Let's do it. Because I do that too.
Yeah. So, and so at Congress, did you attend? I couldn't remember if you were in the room or not. Were you there for the peer to peer event with Jim Paluch? I was not. I wanted to be, but I had already committed to the designer conference. OK. And I couldn't do both at the same time. Yeah, it was a pretty powerful. It was a powerful day. We were.
really talking about resiliency in the workplace and building resiliency under stress. And he was bringing it around and talking about depression, right? And that's something in his book. So he's got this book, The Depressed Motivational Speaker, which I haven't started yet, but I'm really excited to get into. And it's not an easy topic and it affects more people than we know, right?
And I think that the more that we talk about it, the more we realize we have more in common than we realize. And you know, we all have our own way of dealing with it. So David, if you're comfortable, could you share with us a little bit about your bout with depression and what that means and when this first started with you? Okay, well, I would say that, you know, there's a good ebb and flow to it. And there's times when, uh,
I don't know why I just I'm not comfortable in my own skin. You know, stupid little, I shouldn't say stupid little things, little things were what would be somewhat seem as little would just make me cry in that I would just cry and cry. So, you know, I was able to find a therapist who I was really comfortable with and talk about these things.
Heather Jerrard (33:27.438)
And definitely talking helps. And when you have someone who has a sympathetic ear, sometimes just to talk and have someone, they don't have to answer, just get it out. And I know for me too, like when I'm having moments where I'm not in the best of places, I have a couple coping techniques. One is that I put in a piece of music that I love. I have on my...
Spotify list, it's called Music for the Last Couple. And I think there's like four or 500 songs. And they're guaranteed to make me, put me in a better place. And I force myself to smile and that helps. And for me personally also to reconnect with nature. So whether that's going into my garden just for five, 10, 15 minutes or a...
Um, you know, I try to at least once a year get into a wild place, whether it's Algonquin Park or, um, something like that. Yeah. And so those things help. And also I've found in the past few years, I've become a very touchy person. I love human contact. Um, I love hugging people.
I know maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea and sometimes that sense of intimacy threatens others. But for me, it makes me...
I love that connection and that energy you get from hugging someone. I love that. Well, I'm going to give you a big hug when I see you and hopefully it's not a whole year from now again at Congress. No, we'll try and make sure to figure something out. Yeah. Well, you know, I was talking with a common friend, Pam Cook. Oh, yeah. Pam teaches, you know, at Fanshawe. I said, if you ever need a guest speaker, let me know in the
Heather Jerrard (35:31.822)
I'm willing to make the trip. I have a buddy who lives just outside of London and Thorndale. So I could visit my buddy and um, yeah, I could be, there's some people who might be interested. Well, I am walking distance from Fanshawe. So if you come as a guest speaker, you hit me up so I can buy you a beer. I do anything for beer pretty much. Perfect. Yeah, me too. You know, there's a line, but it's, it's somewhere over there. So, uh, we're just about out of time here, but I want to wrap up.
the episode with some advice that you might have for people who are just starting out or thinking of starting a business. And you had mentioned that you, one thing you would have done differently is taken a small business course. Is there a specific area or just a general business course that? I would say just general. I'm really, I don't have a head for business. I don't have a whole, well, I guess I do have business acumen now. I have, I mean,
doing it for a long time, but it is definitely not my strength. And I don't understand like spreadsheets. I don't understand budgets. I just, I'm kind of blessed to have.
people around me who do pretty good work. No, I think, no, we do great work. And somehow it all works, but it's kind of like, holy shit, it actually worked. But I think I could be more profitable, which would mean that I can pay my staff more if I had more of that.
you know, understanding, but it's something that brings me no joy. Um, and I kind of tend to focus on more on the things that bring me joy. Gotcha. Love it. Uh, before we run out of time, is there a book that you would recommend? Uh, so I can recommend three. Okay. The first one is called, uh, uh, breakfast champions by Kurt Vonnegut jr. Uh, written a long time ago.
Heather Jerrard (37:36.974)
but there's a line in that book that has stuck with me since our first Reddit 16 years ago. And he says, there's a character, he says, he's in the bathroom. And you see somebody scribbled on the bathroom stall. What is the meaning of life? And the character's answer is to be the eyes and the ears and the conscience of the creator of the universe you fool. Magic. So for me, that's a profoundly influencing book.
There's one called a Sam County Almanac by Aldo Leopold, which I think every person in the industry should read. He was one of the first ecologists environmentalists back in the 40s and 50s. And I think you need to have Michael Dirr's book. Emanuel. Yes, I have that right behind me. Awesome. David, thank you so much. We're just about to run out of time. So I want to thank you so much, David from Quercus Gardens.
Check him out online, see what he's been up to. And thank you so much again for being my very first official guest on Hops and Hedges.
Guest Information/Contact
David Milne Email: quercusgardens@rogers.com
Instagram: LINK
Check out their website here: https://quercusgardens.ca/
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